IMV51: UGC Promotions

The following is a transcript for IMV51: UGC Promotions. The original podcast is located here.

Announcer

Welcome to the Internet Marketing Voodoo podcast brought to
you by MindComet. And now, here's your host, Paul Lewis.

Paul Lewis:

Welcome to Internet Marketing Voodoo. I'm your host, Paul
Lewis, and today's topic is user-generated content promotions.
Our guest today is Mark Hardison. He's the Vice President of
Marketing for El Pollo Loco. Mark, could you tell us a little bit
about your background?

Mark Hardison:

Yeah, I'm with El Pollo Loco. We are a chain here based in
California. The heritage of the brand started here and we're
expanding across the nation. And I've been with El Pollo Loco
with seven years now. Before that, I was with another quick
service restaurant chain here in Southern California called Carl's
Jr.

But here at El Pollo Loco, I'm in charge of our advertising and
promotional programs associated with driving traffic and building
sales in our restaurants.

Paul Lewis:

Great, because today we're focusing on the user-generated content
aspect of things. What do you see as the value of leveraging this
user-generated content? That's kind of a new phenomenon that's
been occurring on the Web. What's the value of that to a brand
like yours?

Mark Hardison:

It is new. It's very new to me, as well. But one of the things that I
see in it that I like so much and I think it will prove to be a true
value of UGC, user-generated content, is that engagement; really
activating the brand with that target consumer and engaging them
in something that has somewhat of a meaning for them, even if it's
superficial, but it means something to them and it connects them to
our brand in a unique way.

Paul Lewis:

Yeah, I think that so much of traditional advertising is starting to
be more glossed over. I think you're seeing consumers have just
been inundated, especially members of Gen Y; they've just been
inundated with so many commercial messages from the time that
they were born that they are very adept at tuning that out - of really
separating themselves from those messages. And so I think you're
spot-on that consumer-generated content allows them an
opportunity to really get involved and creates a much stronger
brand impression and hopefully a relationship with the consumer.

Mark Hardison:

That's what we're trying to see with the programs that we have out
in the marketplace right now. It's just really make that connection,
even if it's the first connection in some cases that people have of
the brand. But do that in a way that is kind of their terms - on the
user's term, on our target consumers' terms rather than us telling
them about our brand.

Paul Lewis:

Yeah. I think when I start talking to companies about this; the first
response that I often get back is what about the risks, though?
What are the potential downfalls of letting users or consumers kind
of take your brand and interact with your brand in a very public
way. What are your thoughts on that?

Mark Hardison:

It is a bit of a tightrope because those same things that really create
that engagement and involvement and put that control in your
target consumers' hands, that's the thing that they value; especially
that Gen-Y and those younger consumers. They want that control
and it's on their terms just like we were just saying.

But now, as a marketer, that's a hard thing to let go of, that control.
And I think that's where the biggest risk of these types of
promotions come in. And not only from just a simple sort of trying
to relate your brand to a target audience, but even from a legal
standpoint, too. I think there are significant risks when you engage
consumers to create content on your behalf, you've let that control
out of your hands. And, certainly for the programs that we've put
together, we've worked hand-in-hand with our legal team and
that's been quite an involved process.

Paul Lewis:

Sure. I think that there are definitely some safety measures that
each company needs to take a close look at. And I think it's also
important for there to be that mental shift to recognize that your
brand is already starting to become part of the consumer space and
there's so many comments on forums and people making videos on
YouTube and things that are involving very prestigious brands
that, whether you want to go there kicking or screaming or really
just become part of the conversation, you will be dragged into the
world of user-generated content in this new millennium.

Mark Hardison:

That's very true, Paul. And we noticed that as we ventured into
this arena, doing searches for El Pollo Loco on YouTube or on
Google definitely yielded results.

But the distinction that our legal team puts on it is when it's truly
from a user with no impetus from the brand, obviously there's no
liability. But if we're out there suggesting users provide content
on our behalf, or using our brand name, then that turns into
something different in the legal arena. And I'm no legal expert but
it seems like as we've gotten closer involved with user-generated
content programs, it's becoming that and that's an important
distinction that we've had to keep in mind as we have seeded
different viral programs. And keeping that in mind about where
the impetus for that program was generated. If it comes from the
brand, it creates some risk for the brand.

Paul Lewis:

Absolutely. I think that's a very succinct way of putting it and a
good thing for our audience to keep in mind. What do you think
are the key elements that make a viral program successful? Are
there certain tactics? Are there best practices to make sure that
things really go viral and don't fizzle? And what are some things
that you look for there?

Mark Hardison:

I think it's important to have some seed content; don't rely
completely on users to generate what you set out to do. If you start
with seed content that is something that you've molded and not
tightly molded because it will immediately stand out as something
that wasn't user generated.

But give good direction to consumers and to the users on what
you're looking for and provide an incentive. These are some basic
marketing tactics, traditional marketing tactics taken to this new
world of viral marketing, but they work. And when we put a prize
out there, it generates interest. And if we put a prize for posting
the best video on a Web site, microsite, like
WheresTheFlameGrill.com, which we're doing right now, we see
that people respond to that. And they want to win. And so they do
a great job creating content for us.

Paul Lewis:

Yeah, I think that's something that a lot of marketers sometimes
forget is some of the basics. They say great, we're going to do this
viral and they have this viral idea but they don't put some of the
basic blocking and tackling that they should know so well from
marketing of, "Okay, how are we going to get people involved in
the program? Let's give them some content to get started with."
They tend to focus on the end result, this is going to go big and
viral and forget some of the basic, up front work to really get it off
to the right start and build up that critical mass.

Mark Hardison:

You're right, Paul. For this video promotion that we're doing, the
user-generated video content on WheresTheFlameGrill.com, we've
provided users a bumper, a brief little piece of footage that we ask
them to incorporate into the video before they post it on YouTube
and then link it back to our site.

And it is that sort of basic blocking and tackling kind of tactic, but
we've got our logo prominent, we've got the Web site that we
want to refer end users back to in every video that's generated and
linked to our site and posted on YouTube. So we feel confident
that that type of tactic is a real basic need in creating effective
user-generated content programs.

Paul Lewis:

When you look at the financial side of things, of where you might
invest your budgets in coming years and how you measure the
return on those investments, is there anything that's changing now
now that there is this UGC space and ongoing relationship
communication with email and things like that? Is that having an
effect either on the investment side or on the measurement of
return on investment for you?

Mark Hardison:

Yeah, it's interesting. It's put our traditional marketing in a new
light and we think about our broadcast advertising, on television
and radio for instance, in a different way. Obviously the
quantitative nature of online and viral programs, email and the
types of programs that you're talking about, Paul; the data that you
get is so enriching and it gives you so much direction on how to
mold a program. When you compare it back to what we used to do
and what we still do, with traditional broadcast advertising, it pales
in comparison. You get very little data back about how this
created response with the consumer and you're using really blunt
tools to measure any kind of level of engagement that the viewer
gets out of a TV commercial, for instance.

I think that that's one of the biggest things I've noticed about how
we look at our ROI and it's prompted more and more of our budget
each year to be allocated to online and email marketing.

Paul Lewis:

Great. I mean, I think that there's that opportunity; it's so
measurable that it makes it easy and yet we still have to create that
balance. I've kind of seen the pendulum swing from very - what
I'll call touchy, feely, fuzzy intent to buy sort of high-level
traditional marketing mentality - all the way to the opposite
extreme which is almost a pay-per-click result for every viewer.

And I think that's you're right; you really have to create an ROI
model that's a little more complex and looks at all the things of
how much brand engagement, and how much messaging, how
many people are involved, how creative and thought-provoking are
the ideas, and create everything from a very detailed metric that the
online space can obviously give you to still some of those old
numbers that we used under the traditional model and create the
right hybrid going forward.

Mark Hardison:

Yeah, certainly. And I do think that's a good word to use, Paul,
"hybrid" because you have to think about taking promotions across
mediums as well and linking them back to some of what broadcast
advertising you're doing; linking the user-generated content back
to that, or vice versa, I think is a very effective way to build your
marketing strategy and realize that sometimes the total is greater
than the individual parts when you put an integrated program
together. And that's critical.

Paul Lewis:

Mark, I just think that's so spot-on. I talk to clients all the time
about creating synergy and that the real value is not to say well,
I've got my viral campaign running over here and I have my
traditional work going on over here. But really, to combine those
and get the synergy that only happens by focusing all of the
elements to work together. So I think you're miles ahead of where
a lot of people have been and hopefully this kind of information
getting out is going to bring people in that right direction.

As we look forward in time, where do you see this whole UGC
thing going? Do you see any changes from how it affects
everything in the PR department? Or what might be happening in
the coming years with UGC that just wasn't possible previous to
this? Any predictions or thoughts there?

Mark Hardison:

Yeah, I certainly think that integrating public relations and using
in-store and in our case, in-restaurant, merchandising to spread the
buzz and to link people back to our UGC programs are very
effective ways and ways that I think as this medium proves itself
with user-generated content, that you'll see more and more
integration and more and more proliferation of these kinds of
things.

And I think the key for us on the client side is to engage your legal
teams early so they know what you're up to because that was a
significant hurdle for me. And I mentioned it earlier in our talk,
Paul. But I really was surprised at how much consideration we had
with the legal team and that is really, I think, the way to enable this
medium - is to make sure you're working lock-step with the legal
teams so that things don't get shut down and big lawsuits don't get
created that can really stymie it and truncate its development.

Paul Lewis:

So I think kind of in summary, the things that I heard you mention
is work early and often with your legal team. Plan to have seed
content and to make sure that you've created the right incentives to
get consumers involved with your promotion. Then, make sure
that you're creating a cross-media synergistic approach to success
and finally, that you need new models to measure your ROI and
determine that you are on track.

Mark Hardison:

That's right. And make sure you use those models back on your
traditional media, too, because I think a lot of people forget about
that and they put this new world of online and user-generated
content to a whole different standard, maybe because there's so
much data available. You have to remember there's an investment
in that lifetime value of engaging a consumer. And that's a critical
thing that us marketers – that's the brass ring that we all are
striving for.

Paul Lewis:

Mark, I couldn't agree more. In fact, I talk to people all the time
and say, "You really need to be thinking about a lot of your online
investments as an annuity that's going to pay off over time because
that becomes a permanent part of the fabric of the online world.
It's interwoven and usually does not go away for a very long
period of time, where last year's television advertisements are
probably not driving a lot of sales for you this year. Your last
year's online promotions and especially UGC promotions are
probably going to continue to drive interest and awareness for
many months, if not years, to come."

Mark Hardison:

Very true.

Paul Lewis:

Well listen. I'd like to wrap up. Are you ready to play Truth or
Marketing?

Mark Hardison:

I'm ready, Paul.

Paul Lewis:

All right. Here with go with our first question. First question I
want to talk about is this whole writer's strike thing. What do you
think? Will this ultimately backfire and we're going to see a lot
more success from reality TV and sport event TV as well as user-
generated and web content starting to come more to the forefront
and less professionally scripted content being in the mix?

Mark Hardison:

Well, I think that there is always going to room for creative content
and fully-scripted programming. But I think that the model for that
is going to change dramatically. And I think of my own personal
habits and how much I'm viewing series' on HBO and Showtime
and I'm paying for that content and obviously as a marketer, I'm
not reaching anybody who is watching that.

So I do think that it is going to backfire in a large sense for the
writers and it's going to make it more difficult for them to get
work in the future.

Paul Lewis:

All right. The second thing that I noticed is that there's a new
social networking service in Europe that's catching on that allows
members to pay to promote themselves on the front page or on the
listings of who's hot and what's hot for about a dollar for a front-
page position. Do you think that's going to catch on on a larger,
global scale? Are people willing to pay for their 15 minutes of
fame?

Mark Hardison:

I think people are willing to pay for it and I wouldn't be surprised
if that catches on. It's a new revenue model for the social
networks and I think it will proliferate, yeah.

Paul Lewis:

Cool. All right. Last question. So I'm going to give you an out
because this has a variety of sensitive predictions so I'm giving
three choices. You can make a prediction as to the outcome of the
Super Bowl, the outcome of the '08 presidential election or the
biggest celebrity break-up of 2008?

(Laughter)

Mark Hardison:

All right. Well, I will take the –

Paul Lewis:

No pressure.

Mark Hardison:

No pressure. I'll take the first and go for the perfect record in New
England. I think the Patriots are going to pull it off and it's going
to be quite a year for football.

Paul Lewis:

Yeah. I think that you probably went – of the three questions, I
think you went with the safe pick.

Mark Hardison:

I sure did.

(Laughter)

You've got my number, Paul.

Paul Lewis:

Shows you're marketing savvy. Well, Mark, listen. It was a real
pleasure to have you on the show today. I hope people will check
out the viral promotion. If you want to go ahead, can you give us a
plug for that URL again?

Mark Hardison:

I will, yeah. It's WheresTheFlameGrill.com. El Pollo Loco
restaurants.

Paul Lewis:

Perfect.

Mark Hardison:

All right.

Paul Lewis:

And again, thanks for being on the show. And take care.

Mark Hardison:

Thank you. Bye, Paul.

Paul Lewis:

Bye.

Announcer

For more information on this week's topic, visit
InternetMarketingVoodoo.com. This Podcast has been brought to you by MindComet, the Relationship Agency.

[End of Audio]

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