IMV42 : BtoB Online Marketing

The following is a transcript for IMV42 : BtoB Online Marketing. The original podcast is located here.

Announcer:

Welcome to the Internet Marketing Voodoo podcast, brought to you by MindComet. And now, here’s your host, Paul Lewis.

Paul Lewis:

Welcome to Internet Marketing Voodoo. I’m your host, Paul Lewis. Today’s topic is business to business online marketing. My guest today is Hollis Thomases, and she is the President of WebAdvantage. Hollis, can you tell us a little bit about your background?

Hollis Thomases:

Well, I’ve been in this business since 1998, which means we’re going on nine years.

Paul Lewis:

In Internet dog years, that’s like a lifetime.

Hollis Thomases:

I know. I say I’m Internet grandma now. [Laughter].

Paul Lewis:

[Laughter]. I love it.

Hollis Thomases:

WebAdvantage, the company that I founded, is an interactive marketing and advertising agency. We specialize in building and implementing direct response Internet strategies. Personally, I am both a ClickZ columnist on the topic of agency media buying strategies, and I’ve also done lots of columns for various publications: DM News, Success Magazine, Advertising Age, Business Week. I’ve also done lots of speaking engagements.

Paul Lewis:

Well, that’s a great diversity of background and experience. I think you’ll bring a wealth of knowledge to the discussion today.

Hollis Thomases:

I hope to.

Paul Lewis:

I think that the first item that really is weighing on my mind, and as I work with clients, is our consumer marketers seem very quick to experiment and to try the latest advancements in media and technology, but business to business marketers seem to kind of hold back a little bit. Why do you feel that they’re slower in their adoption rate, and is that consistent across all industries, or are there some variations there?

Hollis Thomases:

I think that the slower adoption rate is due to sort of an old-school mentality, and it does vary by industry. Professional services, which is very, very vast, are further along than, say, the manufacturing, commercial, industrial B2B sectors. Part of it is that it’s a little bit of an old boys’ network. They’re used to face-to-face interactions. A lot of business was conducted on a handshake. And then as they moved into more of the modern age, they began experimenting in things like direct mail marketing and print, perhaps in trade magazines, and trade shows, for sure.

So that’s what they’ve known for the past 25, 30 years. When the Internet came along in the late ’90s, I don’t think they even considered it a viable marketing channel. It was more something crazy that stock investors were going gaga over. If you think about it, most people are at their computers at work eight hours a day. So where are they conducting most of their business? The Internet and e-mail and search has really overcome even the telephone for communications, in many cases.

So I think that realization of, “Hey, we’ve gotta be doing this” has forced the needle to be pushed. So adoption is happening, and it’s getting there. It’s just kind of like that locomotive that once it’s starting, there’s a lot of inertia to get it going.

Paul Lewis:

I think we’ve seen, in our experience in working with a lot of business to business marketers, that it definitely does have to start from the top down, and that many CEOs have come up through the ranks of direct sales, and understanding their business in the way they built their business, by personal relationships.

This new age of Internet marketing is a little bit for them to wrap their brains around. What are some of the challenges for business to business marketers in understanding that and getting the support of upper management?

Hollis Thomases:

Ironically, it’s typically that somebody else in their industry has embraced the net, and that it’s becoming more public knowledge, so that the success of their competitor is compelling them forward. Unless, of course, you’ve got a really cutting-edge team, and they’re already the early adopters.

Another thing I think that’s a challenge is that unless you’re talking professional services – if you’re talking other B2B sectors, manufacturing, commercial, they could be global marketing entities. They have not only the challenge of their potential business being poached by their Chinese counterparts or Asian whatever, whoever’s competing with them, but also that anybody in the world can go to Google [Laughter] –

Paul Lewis:

Right.

Hollis Thomases:

– and find whomever is coming up at the top of the search engine rankings. That’s what we tell a lot of our clients and prospects who we’re talking to about SEO, search engine optimization, and that is that who you think is your competitor in the real world doesn’t really matter when someone’s doing a Google search. Who comes up at the top of the search engine ranking is who your competitor is online.

That really takes certain people aback. This kind of reaction we find happens at any level of the company and any kind of company. This can be like a multi-billion dollar company, and we’re saying this as if it’s new news to them.

Part of it is that there’s global forces at work; not just potentially manufacturing their machinery for less, but actually marketing right where everybody else is marketing. You get granular – there’s less marketing inventory available for these kind of sectors, particularly because they’re niche.

There’s only gonna be, for example, so many places where you can buy advertising, so many keyword searches that you can select to buy advertising through, so many third-party e-mail lists to rent. The opportunities to find places to market to their customers is more limited than the broad consumer mass market.

Paul Lewis:

Absolutely. That’s a great point. You mentioned in one of your ClickZ articles that when you talked to direct marketers, many of them feel the Internet marketing just isn’t as effective as it could be for B2B. Can you give us some counterexamples to this, where some business to business marketers have been able to achieve some good ROI on their investments in these areas?

Hollis Thomases:

I think that one thing that the B2B marketers have going on in their favor is they do it well. B2B marketing through e-mail can actually be more effective than consumer marketing. The B2B side of things, because it’s so niche and because it’s specialized, their e-mail may get more attention and more open rates, and therefore, more view-throughs and actions than, say, anything else in the e-mail box.

I know I read my trade publications a hell of a lot more than I read just anybody’s e-mail newsletter that’s coming through. I want that content. I want to stay on top of my industry, and that’s one benefit of marketing through e-mails.

Another thing that I think is interesting is that, for example, the industry directory used to be the Thomas Register, and now it’s ThomasNet.com. They went through a whole rebranding campaign because they were rebranding themselves, and they have discontinued printing their directory altogether, and now, everything’s online.

So they not only had to rebrand, but they had to make it clear to their users that they are no longer gonna be a print directory, and that if you want to do anything, you need to go look online. So they did a whole remarketing campaign, and they did surveys before and after by phone and e-mail to gauge the effect of the rebranding campaigns. That was a very successful execution.

Also, I describe search engine marketing as low-hanging fruit, because it really, really is. For a lot of companies, it all begins with a search engine, and that search engine primarily is Google. I talk to the manufacturing sector ant the B2B sector a lot in my speaking engagements, and I get questions like, “Well, what about this online directory, or what about that online directory,” those being niche-specific directories. I usually turn the question around and say, “Okay. Everybody here in the audience. You’re in this business. Where do you go first when you start to do some research?”

Paul Lewis:

Right.

Hollis Thomases:

“Do you go to those trade directories?” No. They’re raising their hands for Google, not the trade directories.

Paul Lewis:

Exactly.

Hollis Thomases:

So they need to be there. I would also say that something that’s happening right now is that since the light bulb is going on for these folks that they need to get adoption of the Internet into their marketing strategy, they’re finally thinking about, “Well, my existing website’s really not serving the needs of my visiting prospects. How do I make that better?”

So if they’re gonna be redeveloping their website, they might as well be thinking of things like search engine optimization from that get-go point. Because it’s really important to build a search engine-friendly website, and not a search engine-unfriendly website. So if you’re gonna take a good portion of your marketing budget and allocate it to new site redevelopment, you might as well do that in a search engine optimization-friendly way.

Paul Lewis:

Oh, I couldn’t agree more. I think that when we talk to our clients, it’s very much about we need to not just say we’re going to create a new website; we want to create an interactive strategy for you that incorporates all the elements. Because what you really want from your website is specific business results. It may be the leads generated. It could be e-commerce. Again, depends on the industry and the business.

What you’re really trying to do is not build it, and they will come. You have to build it and put the components in place to ensure that you get the visitors and the types of visitors that you want, and that includes all of – how so you get them to sign up for e-mail newsletters? How do you search engine optimize the sites so that they can be found on the search engines? What sort of online media buying do you need to engage in to drive the traffic that you’re looking for, and how do you bring them back with relevant, good content that’s easy to navigate?

Hollis Thomases:

Right.

Paul Lewis:

So it’s the whole package. They have to have a complete view of their strategy, not just implementing a site. So I agree with you completely.

Hollis Thomases:

Right. And that’s the thing. The web is a different medium. In fact, the web is many different things all at one time. Somebody could be doing research while somebody else is ready to buy, and the person doing research is interested in reading content and finding information. The person who’s ready to buy is interested in transactions.

So those are two different people, and you need to think about how am I gonna reach those people, and how am I gonna bring them either to my website in the first place, or back to my website, so that I can get that customer? To your point about e-mail marketing, that’s another thing that requires a whole strategy. How am I going to be top of mind when people are ready to buy, instead of them just finding me? Because I don’t want to count on them bookmarking my website and coming back to me. You know? [Laughter].

Paul Lewis:

Right.

Hollis Thomases:

I think what’s happening is it’s almost forcing the B2B marketer to think more like a B2C marketer.

Paul Lewis:

Absolutely. They have to change the ways that they look at the marketplace, and adopt the successful strategies that are working in B2C and apply them appropriately into a B2B space.

Hollis Thomases:

You mentioned earlier about media buying. I think that that’s also kind of new to this space. The idea of doing display advertising on the Internet is not something that’s top of mind to them. But display advertising can also be very effective, for example, to drive the download of a white paper, or a case study. But you can always twist it and have a contest. Or how about a webinar? I mean, there’s a lot of things that you can use display advertising for that you can build awareness and get traffic from.

It really is more like paralleling the print advertising marketplace, when people are reading content on a website that is an information source, or even in somebody else’s e-mail newsletter, that your display ad can be there and can be clicked on and clicked through. That’s the difference between print. Print, you can’t click on anything and go to anything immediately. You have to tear it out of the magazine and remember to go look it up when you’re back in the office.

Paul Lewis:

Exactly.

Hollis Thomases:

Which does happen, but at least the web is an immediate click-through.

Paul Lewis:

Yeah. Print is certainly not dead, but there are some nice advantages, both in the measurability of the web, and that you can see these instant results, and also, that immediate accessibility to go through while it’s top of mind.

I think it’s – I like your point, too, of – that you can download white papers and case studies. I think one of the things that B2B marketers need to put in their game plan is not always the end goal. Many times, what they’re selling is very complex equipment and services, often very expensive, often takes groups of consensus within organizations in order to sell effectively. And so they are trying to gain mind share and confidence and trust in their brand and in their products over a period of time.

Hollis Thomases:

Right.

Paul Lewis:

You can’t measure it to say, “Well, how many sales leads did the website generate this month?” You want to start back and say, “Our goal is to get 5,000 people within our industry to read our white paper that illustrates some very important points and demonstrates our competency in this area.” You have to create these smaller goals that build up to, over time, the results you’re looking for in sales and revenue.

Hollis Thomases:

Yeah, absolutely, because if they’re not in the mix to begin with, then they’ve just totally missed the boat.

Paul Lewis:

Right.

Hollis Thomases:

Right? So if they’re not even in the consideration cycle, forget it. Even on the side of B2B that involves big-ticket sales, either software or equipment that can be easily six figures, maybe seven, they can take that aspect of online marketing a step further and do something like multivariate testing, which is when elements of a website or a web page, or even an e-mail newsletter, can be tested for how the presentation or how the marketing messages, or the placement of that graphic or link, generates action or not.

When I talk about things like this, most B2B marketers are hearing this kinda stuff for the first time. I don’t necessarily expect for them to have heard of it, but there’s just so much that they could be doing that makes sense for them to do. I mean, they’re not selling $30.00 pairs of pants.

Paul Lewis:

Right.

Hollis Thomases:

They’re selling billion point two machinery, or hospital service equipment, or whatever.

Paul Lewis:

It can also affect what they do in their offline marketing. We had a client that marketed to doctors, as well as hospital administrators, for very expensive equipment. We had a CD product that went out in the mail, and they felt that the hospital administrators would want to see the ROI and the numbers for the cases of this situation within their area, and that the doctors would want to see case studies.

What was very interesting is that the very first thing the doctors went to was the ROI. Then they did look at the case studies. I’m not slamming the doctors there, but they definitely wanted to understand, before they invested a lot of time in this, was this something that was a significant need within their area?

So it changed their entire marketing approach, where they could then realize when we do a presentation to doctors offline, we need to change our approach and show them first what the ROI is on the equipment that we’re selling, and then go into case studies. So it changed their entire marketing perspective.

Hollis Thomases:

Right. It also – whomever is responsible for the marketing and who’s championing this, sometimes does have to break down how are we gonna justify what we’re doing? Because it isn’t always about a direct correlation to sales immediately. Let’s say something that they’re doing previously has not really been measurable, but they’re hesitant to go into something else that’s totally measurable. That’s the grand irony of the web.

Paul Lewis:

Right.

Hollis Thomases:

We’re competing for dollars against things that are otherwise mostly unmeasurable. Yet, there’s a reluctance to embrace this.

Paul Lewis:

Let’s touch on that for a second. There is this reluctance to move from where they’re investing their dollars today, because they’re not sure exactly what is causing their success. What’s the timeframe that you see that starting to change? I think it’s already starting to change some. And what percentage should business to business marketers maybe be considering pulling over from their marketing budget into the interactive space?

Hollis Thomases:

It has definitely started, and I do think that the momentum is already in place that’s shifting the mindset to think about the Internet as a serious contender in the major marketing schema.

In terms of budget, I think that those who are far enough along that they’ve tested, let’s say search marketing, and that they haven’t gone any further, they’re probably spending no more than ten to 20 percent of their budget. For those who have and who have seen positive results, they’re the ones who are shifting more, and are wanting to test more.

Yeah, I think that we can’t really expect to see any more than 35 percent, 40 percent, if we’re lucky, of budget being allocated to the web, because they’re still committed to their trade shows, and those take big dollars. So I think that it’s probably still, to be conservative, no more than a third of their budget.

Paul Lewis:

Yeah, I think that’s pretty spot-on with what we’ve seen, as well. It makes a lot of sense to create a synergistic approach. As you mentioned trade shows, there’s so many ways to maximize the value of the trade show, whether that be e-mails or gathering mobile messaging, or a variety of white papers and case studies that they can download.

All those things that, before and after the trade show, drive them to have an engagement and involvement with the brand. There’s so many opportunities that it just makes sense to balance the spending so that you’re maximizing the results from all your areas, because they really work synergistically together.

Hollis Thomases:

Exactly. Just because I’m an Internet marketer, it doesn’t mean I’m not a proponent of other forms of marketing. I think that would be foolish. But what I am is a champion of the Internet, and I’m also trying to be a mouthpiece and an educator, which is why I’m talking to you today about this.

Because these folks, they need help. I say that with real love and respect, because what happens is, a lot of marketing minds, the people who work on the agency side, they want to work for consumer brands, because they’re fun and exciting and they have a lot of money to spend and they’re sexy. B2B is not really sexy.

Paul Lewis:

Right.

Hollis Thomases:

But it’s really important. I mean, it – this is how these businesses survive and thrive. They need to kinda get into this 21st century. There are folks like us out there that want to help them do that.

Paul Lewis:

Absolutely. Well, Hollis, I really appreciate all your insights today. I’m sure the audience did, as well. Thank you so much.

Hollis Thomases:

Thank you, too, Paul.

Paul Lewis:

For more information, you can learn about WebAdvantage at www.webadvantage.net, and as always, InternetMarketingVoodoo.com. Thanks again.

Announcer:

For more information on this week’s topic, visit internetmarketingvoodoo.com. This podcast has been brought to you by MindComet, The Relationship Agency.

[End of Audio]

Marketing Resources
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