IMV34 : Generation Y: The Era of the Echo Boomers

The following is a transcript for IMV34 : Generation Y: The Era of the Echo Boomers. The original podcast is located here.

Announcer:

Welcome to the Internet Marketing Voodoo podcast, brought to you by MindComet. And, now, here’s your host, Paul Lewis.

Paul Lewis:

Welcome to Internet Marketing Voodoo. I’m your host Paul Lewis and with me today is Anastasia Goodstein. She’s the publisher of Ypulse.

Anastasia, could you tell us a little bit about yourself and your experience with Generation Y?

Anastasia Goodstein:

Sure. I’m actually, probably very squarely in Generation X, but I began my career working in non-profit media, publishing a magazine called Teen Voices, which is written by and for teen girls, and then moved over into the commercial side of things and worked with Oxygen TV when they had a show for teens called Trackers and helped them develop a network of teen journalists who told stories from their point of view.

And went onto work at a start up called Keyboo, which some people may know of from the dot com days, and that was a site for teen girls. Then left the teen scene and went to work for AOL for a couple of years. Then just really, really missed it and started Ypulse as a way to reconnect with my own inner teen. I always tell people I’m in a constant stage of arrested development, and to really sort of build a community around people who are doing this work, either marketing to teens or are trying to reach them for other reasons, whether they’re psychologists or youth ministers, or non-profits.

So the site has really spawned a community of people who are passionate about this audience or as passionate as I am. And then most recently I was able to go and help launch Current TV, which is Al Gore’s latest venture. It’s a television network from 18 to 34 year olds that relies heavily on user-generated content from its audience. So not only were we targeting sort of the older part of Generation Y, but I was also working with lots of young people squarely in that generation.

Paul Lewis:

Sure, and when you say the older part of Generation Y, for our audience that may not be as familiar with the definition of Gen Y, can you tell us a little bit about what that means and what sets this generation apart from any other?

Anastasia Goodstein:

Sure. There are lots of names for this generation, whether you call them Generation Y or Millenials or Echo boomers. It’s basically anyone who would be a tween, or sort of 10, 11, 12 years olds sort of starting there going all the way up through the sort of early 20s. That would be sort of the age range that people talk about when they talk about this generation.

And they’re different then past generation in a few ways. Some people would say that they have been the most parented generation of our time. Whereas my generation, we were sort of called the latchkey kids, the Generation X, your mom was at work and we were home after school. This generation of kids and teens grew up with heavy parental involvement and structure and activities, and not a lot of free time to just hang out. Because of that some people would say maybe a little too much emphasis on self-esteem or feeling like they’re the most special group.

Though some people would say Generation Y, at least in the older end for those who are in the workplace, that they may seem maybe a little entitled or feel like they are kind of the center of things and have amazing ideas, which they do to share, and don’t have the same ethic that I know when I went to work it was you have to pay your dues and work your way into that position before you get to demand all of that responsibility.

They’re also a totally wired generation. They grew up with the Internet. They were raised with the Internet and cell phones and all of this technology, and are just really hyperconnected at all times to the media, to each other. They use a lot of these technologies to do the things that teens have always done, which is to socialize and to talk to their friends continuously. They can just do it through several different mediums now.

They are also the Napster generation in terms of technology. They grew up feeling like everything was meant to be shared and they don’t totally understand what copyright means. Of course you borrow an image and put it on your blog or post a video from the Simpsons on YouTube. I mean this is what they grew up doing and it feels really natural to them.

But they also lived through 9/11. The anniversary just happened. I think the jury is out on what the affects of that experience will be on this generation. And I think they generally have an optimistic attitude on things. They get that the world is kind of messed up, has a lot of problems, but I think they’re able to have a great attitude about it and laugh about it and make fun of it, and then talk about what needs to be done to fix it.

Paul Lewis:

Yeah. I think that when we talk to our clients about Gen Y, we frequently comment that they have a smaller world timeline and a larger world view.

Anastasia Goodstein:

I think that that definitely makes a lot of sense.

Paul Lewis:

It’s just such a connected world we find that people are, as you said, they’re so digitally wired they’re as likely to have a friend half way around the globe as they are to talk to their next door neighbor, and that’s really a unique aspect growing up that way that many older people have not really experienced that same type of connection, especially as they get into whether it be online chats or these online virtual worlds. They spend many, many hours with friends that are significantly removed physically from their location.

Anastasia Goodstein:

Yeah. I definitely think that it’s enabled this generation of young people to be connected globally in ways that you use to have to do it as a pen pal and literally write letters to somebody across the globe and hope that you would get something back. But you’re right on whether it’s they’re in a virtual reality, like Second Life on the Teen Grid or on MySpace just chatting with someone from another state or another country, they definitely are able to make connections that past generations could only dream about.

Paul Lewis:

Absolutely. And you also mentioned that sense of entitlement and maybe a little bit of superiority. And I think that some of that comes from just being so naturally adept in the digital world, that cliché term “born digital”, but when they get into the work environment or environments, they really have a low tolerance for people who don’t understand well what is MySpace or what are all these Second Life and virtual worlds and things like that? They don’t understand why other people struggle with that.

So I think they sometimes have a low threshold of tolerance for the older generations who are still coming up to speed.

Anastasia Goodstein:

Yeah. I definitely think that there are normal generational differences. I do think though that this generation is much more of a free agent group. They are sort of the products of at will employment and free agent nation, and this ability to not see going to work for a company as a life long prospect. So they also go into the workplace with very specific ideas about what they want out of it, and what they expect from the employer, and the type of work life balance that is very important to this generation in particular, and they don’t have a lot of patience when an employer is not catering to that or seeing them for all of the talent that they have. I definitely think that there is a little bit of a sense of freedom for good or bad that if you can’t appreciate what I have then there are lots of people who can.

Paul Lewis:

Exactly. There is someone else who will appreciate me for the talents that I possess and so sometimes, as you said, I think that growing up for many of us there was a sense of putting in your time, putting in your dues, and I find much more in our conversations with people in Gen Y a much more fast tracked approach and an inherent sense of value. And as you said, if you don’t appreciate them for the talents they bring, they believe that there is someone else out there that will.

Anastasia Goodstein:

Yeah, no I think it’s true and I do think it comes from again this sort of way that they were raised and parented. And the other thing that I left out in parents and parenting is that this generation is also a lot closer to their parents in terms of spending time with them, seeing them more as friends. I think while there will always be, especially with some teens, the natural tensions that happen when you are individuating and becoming who you are going to become, but I think that the parents of this generation are bending over backwards to try to share in their kids’ interests and find ways to connect to them through pop culture. There’s a lot of pop culture that it seems like they’re able to share that I know I wasn’t able to really share with my mom.

Paul Lewis:

That’s really interesting. From a technology standpoint, what sorts of technologies does Gen Y embrace and what advertising mediums could marketers potentially look at to reach out to Gen Y today?

Anastasia Goodstein:

I think that this generation obviously is very much online and they love to search for things and do their homework just by going to Google and looking for what they need and finding it. There is a study that just came out from the Knight Foundation that was about how they consumed their news and it is definitely still on television and online, not so much newspapers anymore. But when they are consuming it online, that they tend to go to these big portals, Yahoo, Google, AOL, and sort of surf through the headlines there.

So I definitely think they’re into whatever they can find easily online through searching. And then I think email, there’s been a lot of interesting discussion about email. I definitely think for teens, email is not something that they really do. Now just because it’s not something that they really do doesn’t mean that they won’t do it when they have to email their professors or when they go into the workplace and use email as sort of a business medium.

But in terms of just being social and everyday communication, they don’t really use it that much. It’s all about IM’ing, especially if you are younger teen, IM’ing is still super popular, and texting. I think texting has finally really begun to hit the teenaged population in the United States, even though as we know, it’s been incredibly popular abroad for some time.

Paul Lewis:

It’s huge.

Anastasia Goodstein:

So I think when you see a teenager with their thumbs going a zillion miles an hour, they’re probably texting their friend who might be 20 feet away from them. So I think the second part of your question was about what is an effective advertising medium. I don’t think it’s the medium as much as how you plan to use it and what that campaign is. If you are marketing something that adds value and your campaign is giving a teen something, something for free, a discount, something that they can use and it’s done in an authentic way, and done in a contextual way so that it doesn’t feel like an intrusion, then I think all of these technologies are fair game.

I think the worst kind of advertising that’s done using technology is one where it’s really disruptive, where something pops up or you get something that just feels totally out of the blue and doesn’t make sense at all to your life or what you’re doing, and it just feels annoying.

Paul Lewis:

Can you think of a campaign that you felt was particularly effective or particularly ineffective or annoying that we could maybe use as an example.

Anastasia Goodstein:

In terms of things that are effective, I would say immersive environments. I think Coke did a great virtual reality space that I was frankly surprised. I thought who would want to go hang out in, I don’t even have it in front of me to know the name of it, but Coke’s world to sort of be with other people in a Coke virtual world, and I think that there’s some gaming elements going on. But it turned out to be incredibly popular and get tons and tons of visits.

I think Nike’s ID site where you can design your own high end shoes or any sort of web campaign that’s really interactive and lets the user have a degree of control over what’s happening in that environment or in that world is a good way to go.

In terms of things that are intrusive, I mean I don’t know anybody in particular who has done this, but I mean I would think anything where there’s just a text message that hits you that is pushing something that’s not anything you signed up for or anything that you would be interested in, or an IM as well, anything sort of popping up at you would seem to be just more annoying.

Paul Lewis:

I think that what you’re saying is it’s important for marketers to embrace that they need to give up some of the control, and the most effective marketers today are finding unique ways to do that, to sort of partner with their target audience in Gen Y and let them take in some ownership, whether it be in a virtual environment where they’re chatting with their friends and you’re providing the background branding of messaging, or whether it be in custom solutions that allow them to customize their personal look and feel.

But in each case, the cutting edge approach is really to let Gen Y take control then to share that with them.

Anastasia Goodstein:

Yeah. I definitely think that that’s true. But I also think that with a brand like Nike or even Jones Soda, you know some of these brands that really do give control to the customer in terms of designing their shoe or naming their flavor of soda. What they have going for them is well that they’re just a really strong brand already and really popular with this group and have proven their authenticity so that it’s not just about Gen Y sort of being able to go in and do whatever they want to do. But like you said, it’s doing it in partnership with a really strong brand that they have respect for and that has credibility with them.

Paul Lewis:

Absolutely. So we kind of talked a little bit about personalization, which was going to be my next question. Are there other areas of personalization that you might comment on, or are there other areas where you feel that marketers are missing the mark with Gen Y?

Anastasia Goodstein:

I think where marketers can go wrong or sort of miss the mark is everybody wants to have something go viral or something just blow up online, or have a super popular blog or whatever. And having a super popular blog I think is something actually that you can sort of make happen. It takes some ingredients and a lot of steps, but creating a viral ad that is really going to take off is one part of being incredibly creative and funny, and being able to create something that is really compelling. And then three part, sort of just magic or something.

I think that people look at things that become really viral and take off, and then they try to copy them or do something similar thinking that because that particular video or campaign or whatever did really well, that all you have to do is sort of copy it and the same thing will happen.

I think that when people try to do that it feels less authentic and it feels like that’s kind of what they’re doing, is trying too hard, and part of that is just something that really happens organically. I think with this latest sort of lonely girl, 15 saga that happened on YouTube, which wasn’t a marketing campaign, but was something that really took off. I just can imagine a lot of marketers sort of trying to figure out how they can do that, how they can sort of recreate it.

Paul Lewis:

Yeah, that opportunity has really passed to some extent now. It’s been done. The market is very exposed to that and they need to come up with new and creative ideas. I think that there are some basic elements to that approach that they can use, but really you have to approach the market with new creativity. I think if anything this generation is very savvy in spotting me toos and people who are trying to copy, and you have to be original and honest.

Anastasia Goodstein:

Yeah I agree. And then I think the other thing that has been proven out over and over again is when you try to do something that just feels fake. I mean if you’re doing a blog, for example, and you are introducing characters that support your campaign or your brand, but it just doesn’t feel right. I mean the one that always sort of gets talked about, and I love the folks at P&G, so I hope they don’t get mad at me, but when they tried, and they tried to use the web, and they are very open actually trying to use all these technologies to use their target audience, but they did a blog that was about the Secret Sparkle deodorant spray for teens that they were putting out there. They had sort of the different scents blogging. So I think it was like vanilla, the different scents that the spray would actually post blog post.

I think stuff like that just ends up being rejected often out of hand because teens are like huh. I know that’s not a person, that’s a scent, and this just sort of feels sort of weird and cheesy. And I think the same thing sort of went for Wal-Mart trying to get into the social networking space where they sprouted this MySpace like social network around their back to school campaign. I think that great blogs and real communities happen online and become really popular with teens, but there again is sort of that organic nature to them where they need to be real and have time to grow and become something. I don’t think you can synthetically create that.

Paul Lewis:

Sure. So I think I hear you saying again it’s important you have to be authentic. You need to be transparent, and you need to be willing to give up a certain degree of control to allow the expression of consumers to be part of those viral elements. I think, we love the folks at P&G also, but I think that one of the things with the fake blog post was it felt a little fake and it didn’t allow the audience to maybe become as engaged and have as much of the voice and feel that they felt like they were maybe being steered in a particular direction.

Anastasia Goodstein:

Yeah. Definitely. I think that the teens that contribute Y polls occasionally, I mean their sort of impression was that it felt like probably an adult trying to write like a teen as a scented character for teens. Like they can kind of see right through the whole mechanisms that bring that to life. I think all of the things that you said, being authentic, being transparent, and letting things really evolve organically are the most effective, especially online and in this whole sort of technology realm.

And again, offering something of value too. I think that this generation is the most marketed to ever. And I think on the one hand there is sort of a saturation factor and they just see marketing and advertising everywhere, all the time and kind of like oh. Sometimes I think they would like to be free of it for an hour or so, but then I also think that they have become very smart about it too and they know good marketing and they know savvy marketing that makes sense to them, that’s offering something they can use or is funny, witty, smart, and I think that they appreciate that. In a way they are sort of connoisseurs of marketing because there’s so much that’s sort of hurled at them that I think they’re the people to go to if you want really great feedback on whether your campaign or your advertising or marketing message is going to work or not.

Paul Lewis:

So a couple of takeaways from that it sounds like one, is to not underestimate your market. These are very savvy consumers. As you mentioned, they have been inundated with marketing messages since the day they were born, so they’re very savvy consumers, very savvy in understanding what the marketing message is and what the real message behind something is.

I think the thing I took away from your last comment was it’s really advisable to maybe use focus groups and certainly to talk to someone in Gen Y, in that audience, to make sure that your marketing messages and your branding is on track to resonate correctly with them.

Anastasia Goodstein:

Definitely. Whether it’s focus groups or finding a way to integrate this generation, or if your product is for teens, into your product development process so that you are getting feedback as you go on what’s going to be effective. There’s an amazing firm, it’s called 3iYing, and it’s a marketing firm out of New York that actually has teen girls on its staff that come in after school and evaluate campaigns. They do an occasional column in BusinessWeek in the marketing section, and I just find them to be incredibly right on and no holds barred in terms of their opinions on things. And I think it’s really refreshing and I think that more companies would benefit from getting that kind of feedback from their audience as they’re developing, before they’re developing their campaigns.

Paul Lewis:

Great. Well, Anastasia before we end the show today, are there any other top tips as marketers think about how they need to incorporate Gen Y into their marketing that you might suggest for them to consider?

Anastasia Goodstein:

Top tips, you know I think my top suggestions would be to summarize some that I have been talking about, be authentic and transparent, as transparent as you can in sort of talking to this generation. Give them input and let them have input, and give them a sense of control or influence over your product, over what you’re doing, listen to their feedback, ask for it online or in whatever campaign that you’re doing. Let them contribute to it.

We didn’t talk about user generated content so much, but obviously with the video explosion huge right now in terms of people making their own ads and I think that brands and agencies are starting to sort of open up and get over some of their fears about this and I know that people have to be guardians of their brands, but there’s nothing better then having a passionate fan of your product or your brand sort of do their own interpretation of it in terms of selling it to their friends or anybody else who just loves the user generated nature of that commercial, but it’s this home grown DIY feeling about it.

So I think control, letting them contribute to the content, being authentic, and giving them something of value instead of just sort of pushing your product, trying to figure out ways to give them something that’s helpful to them that they can use.

Paul Lewis:

Great. Well that’s a lot. So hopefully marketers had a lot of great takeaways on Gen Y today. Anastasia, thanks for being on the show with us today. It was a real pleasure.

Anastasia Goodstein:

Thank you for having me.

Paul Lewis:

If anyone in the audience has a question for Internet Marketing Voodoo, they can call us tool free at 1-866-206-4461 or get us on the web at internetmarketingvoodoo.com, and if they want more information on Ypulse they can go to Ypulse.com.

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